Toyota GT 86 / Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ Forum | Toyobaru.net Forums

a2cpc · 11-12-2009, 07:37 AM

Although I would love to see the car with the 2.5 engine, I would buy an updated 2.0 without thinking about it.

ej25ti · 11-12-2009, 01:03 PM

I THINK... that they SHOULD offer the 2GR-FSE in Toyota model!!!

no slide · 11-18-2009, 05:59 PM

i dont know how close to roots they are trying to stay with this car, but i would imagine it would NOT come AWD for the simple fact that the original was RWD. and it probably wont have a turbo.

but then again, hyundai came out with the genesis coupe with is 2.0t RWD. for 27k you get brembos, 6spd, lsd, upgraded suspension.

i think it would be safe to say that a TOYOTA/SUBARU with the same options would most likely be in the low 30k range.

nevertheless, im still stoked to see this car and in reality, no matter how it comes people will be scooping these things up like nobodys business

ej25ti · 11-24-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by West

Considering the 350Z is very drift friendly in stock form at its 3500lbs,

the base 350 didn't even come with LSD...
dear God... the FT-86 BETTER COME WITH LSD!!!!

[quote=Cwrigh25;526]So would I, well except a FMIC. quote]

what's wrong with top mounts? :P

SVXistance · 12-07-2009, 01:00 AM

2.5L/3.0L h6 ftw! lol, pipe dreams, but still. while the heart of subaru as far as performance is turbo awd, id love to see an na motor with ITBs! as an option on the subaru! im fairly certain it wont happen, but that would be pretty fantastic imo!

ra23celica · 12-14-2009, 11:27 PM

Love to have them, but just can't see conservative Toyota fitting ITB's to a D-4S FT-86.

williamt2 · 03-20-2010, 01:44 PM

I was thinking about weight and horsepower. The Honda S 2000 had 237 horsepower and 2790 curb weight and did a quarter mile in 13.8 seconds, So if the FT86 has 250 horsepower and weighs 2500 it will feel great. Oh God when will We know ?
Good Luck and God Bless, Bill Ivins

Brick · 03-20-2010, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealWRX

turbo ej25 needs to happen.

This.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkman

The STi variant HAS to have the EJ257 or im not buying the car.

And this.

West · 03-21-2010, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamt2

I was thinking about weight and horsepower. The Honda S 2000 had 237 horsepower and 2790 curb weight and did a quarter mile in 13.8 seconds, So if the FT86 has 250 horsepower and weighs 2500 it will feel great. Oh God when will We know ?

Good point, while that is nice and impressive. It will suffer from cruddy modification potential due to its high HP/liter design, restricted ECU and so forth. Same fate the Celica had.

Not that I care, but for the casual enthusiast, its makes modifying the engine a pain.

ej25ti · 03-21-2010, 12:47 AM

i dont think the potential will be too bad, depends on the compression

HyperFX · 03-21-2010, 09:14 AM

I just love the deep grumbling sounds that the Subaru Boxer engine makes with aftermarket parts. Like West said I hope the ECU isn't a pain to hack. Current Mitsubishi Evos and Nissan GTRs have that same problem. Like most modern cars its all about the computers and how they synchronize with the car.

ra23celica · 03-22-2010, 07:44 AM

The demand should be there for the aftermarket to develop replacement plug and play ECU's.

williamt2 · 03-24-2010, 05:59 PM

The Mini has 208 Horsepower and weighs about 2980 pounds. 14.4 quarter.
Good Luck and God Bless, Bill Ivins

williamt2 · 03-27-2010, 08:18 AM

I read somewhere there will be no all wheel drive for the subaru. True or Not ?
Good Luck and God Bless, Bill Ivins

Cal · 03-27-2010, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamt2

I read somewhere there will be no all wheel drive for the subaru. True or Not ?
Good Luck and God Bless, Bill Ivins

At this point that is purely speculation.

Exitspeed · 03-29-2010, 09:54 AM

Yeah, we have no clue at the point.

Homemade WRX · 05-12-2010, 11:45 PM

I'm going to say that it'll be a high CR DI EJ based (though probably new engine code suffix...E something haha). Much beyond that is pure speculation.

I however can't wait to get one and instantly tear it down for a real build

ej25ti · 05-13-2010, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homemade WRX

I however can't wait to get one and instantly tear it down for a real build

not if i can do it first! hahaha

...fo real though, i want to actually have the first non-business owned sub 12 sec FT-86 or 086a

Terrari · 01-23-2011, 05:23 PM

I cannot see the STi engine in this car. It adds about $8000 to the cost of the WRX which is already turbocharged and has upgrades to match its power. The STi weighs around 3350 lbs compared to the FT86 2650 lbs, or 25% more. The STi increases hp over the WRX by less than 10%. 305 hp is too much according to the numbers, both increases and cost. That said, it would be fun...

We do not know what type of power is available from the new Subaru engines. Assuming that we get a 2.0 with both port and direct fuel injection, we could expect an increase a power increase of around 28% (based on Toyotas V6 which is about 215hp vs the Lexus V6 with 276 hp). This is unboosted power. This would put NA horsepower around 187 hp, or 14.1 lb/hp, which is in the ballpark of speculation for the new engine. The STi is 10.1 lb/hp. A 2.5 NA would be around 235 hp with the dual injection system, or 11.7 lb/hp, and a 2.0 turbo would also be around this number. At 2650lb, you need 262 hp to match the STi at 10.1 lb/hp, and this can be had by the current WRX turbo. All of these engines are feasible price wise for the FT86, all except the STi engine. I guess the most relevant question is: does Subaru want a Toyota based car to outperform the STi?

Terrari · 01-23-2011, 08:23 PM

A supercharged 2.0 with dual injection should be in the range of 230 hp, with gobs of torque down low. This would be a more sensible performance car for the street and generate much less underhood heat. Then, a slightly larger supercharger pulley would boost power to around 270hp @ maybe 10 psi with a total weight gain over the 2.0 NA of about 100 lbs. This would yield 10.2 lb/hp for an added cost of maybe $400.00.

This would certainly be a machine that would offer validation to Darwin's Theory of Natural Selection, as well as leave the STi in its dust until well up the track.

ej25ti · 01-23-2011, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrari

I cannot see the STi engine in this car. It adds about $8000 to the cost of the WRX which is already turbocharged and has upgrades to match its power. The STi weighs around 3350 lbs compared to the FT86 2650 lbs, or 25% more. The STi increases hp over the WRX by less than 10%. 305 hp is too much according to the numbers, both increases and cost. That said, it would be fun...

We do not know what type of power is available from the new Subaru engines. Assuming that we get a 2.0 with both port and direct fuel injection, we could expect an increase a power increase of around 28% (based on Toyotas V6 which is about 215hp vs the Lexus V6 with 276 hp). This is unboosted power. This would put NA horsepower around 187 hp, or 14.1 lb/hp, which is in the ballpark of speculation for the new engine. The STi is 10.1 lb/hp. A 2.5 NA would be around 235 hp with the dual injection system, or 11.7 lb/hp, and a 2.0 turbo would also be around this number. At 2650lb, you need 262 hp to match the STi at 10.1 lb/hp, and this can be had by the current WRX turbo. All of these engines are feasible price wise for the FT86, all except the STi engine. I guess the most relevant question is: does Subaru want a Toyota based car to outperform the STi?

It's not just the motor that makes up that $8000, don't forget 6speed tranny, the brembo brakes, the wheels, and other suspension, interior, and exterior mods.

You made some good points.
BUT
times are changin and ya gotta keep up
hell the the v6 mustang now will keep up with new STIs!! I remember when I had no problem walkin a v8! If these cars want a real sports car competitor especially for cars like the mustang, it's gonna need the extra hp/lb
Yea the WRX motor might make more sense but the ej25 certainly not outa the question. and lexus makes a 306bhp motor as well

Terrari · 01-24-2011, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ej25ti

It's not just the motor that makes up that $8000, don't forget 6speed tranny, the brembo brakes, the wheels, and other suspension, interior, and exterior mods.

You made some good points.
BUT
times are changin and ya gotta keep up
hell the the v6 mustang now will keep up with new STIs!! I remember when I had no problem walkin a v8! If these cars want a real sports car competitor especially for cars like the mustang, it's gonna need the extra hp/lb
Yea the WRX motor might make more sense but the ej25 certainly not outa the question. and lexus makes a 306bhp motor as well

I doubt the FT86 is being built to compete with mustangs any more than the AE86 competed with mustangs of the day. Not every car being introduced has to be the best at everything. Toyota is probably targeting this car to be a fun car to drive with decent acceleration and handling that is aimed at both enthusiasts and others who just want a sharp looking sporty vehicle.
What the enthusiast does with it in the way of aftermarket parts will be assisted by Toyota and G-sports, especially as a Scion.

11-12-2009, 01:03 PM	#32 (permalink)
ej25ti Модератор Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Springfield, MA Age: 22 Posts: 1,322	I THINK... that they SHOULD offer the 2GR-FSE in Toyota model!!! __________________ 05' STi Team Scoobie Member

03-21-2010, 12:47 AM	#40 (permalink)
ej25ti Модератор Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Springfield, MA Age: 22 Posts: 1,322	i dont think the potential will be too bad, depends on the compression __________________ 05' STi Team Scoobie Member

03-29-2010, 09:54 AM	#46 (permalink)
Exitspeed Lord of the Wings Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Shadow Complex Age: 32 Posts: 439	Yeah, we have no clue at the point. __________________

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11-12-2009, 07:37 AM	#31 (permalink)
a2cpc Newbie Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 15	Although I would love to see the car with the 2.5 engine, I would buy an updated 2.0 without thinking about it.

11-18-2009, 05:59 PM	#33 (permalink)
no slide Newbie Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: rancho cucamonga Posts: 7	i dont know how close to roots they are trying to stay with this car, but i would imagine it would NOT come AWD for the simple fact that the original was RWD. and it probably wont have a turbo. but then again, hyundai came out with the genesis coupe with is 2.0t RWD. for 27k you get brembos, 6spd, lsd, upgraded suspension. i think it would be safe to say that a TOYOTA/SUBARU with the same options would most likely be in the low 30k range. nevertheless, im still stoked to see this car and in reality, no matter how it comes people will be scooping these things up like nobodys business

12-07-2009, 01:00 AM	#35 (permalink)
SVXistance Newbie Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 7	2.5L/3.0L h6 ftw! lol, pipe dreams, but still. while the heart of subaru as far as performance is turbo awd, id love to see an na motor with ITBs! as an option on the subaru! im fairly certain it wont happen, but that would be pretty fantastic imo!

12-14-2009, 11:27 PM	#36 (permalink)
ra23celica Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Perth Western Australia Posts: 234	Love to have them, but just can't see conservative Toyota fitting ITB's to a D-4S FT-86.

03-20-2010, 01:44 PM	#37 (permalink)
williamt2 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Philadelphia, PA Age: 70 Posts: 24	I was thinking about weight and horsepower. The Honda S 2000 had 237 horsepower and 2790 curb weight and did a quarter mile in 13.8 seconds, So if the FT86 has 250 horsepower and weighs 2500 it will feel great. Oh God when will We know ? Good Luck and God Bless, Bill Ivins

03-21-2010, 09:14 AM	#41 (permalink)
HyperFX Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 282 View Photos By: HyperFX	I just love the deep grumbling sounds that the Subaru Boxer engine makes with aftermarket parts. Like West said I hope the ECU isn't a pain to hack. Current Mitsubishi Evos and Nissan GTRs have that same problem. Like most modern cars its all about the computers and how they synchronize with the car.

03-22-2010, 07:44 AM	#42 (permalink)
ra23celica Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Perth Western Australia Posts: 234	The demand should be there for the aftermarket to develop replacement plug and play ECU's.

03-24-2010, 05:59 PM	#43 (permalink)
williamt2 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Philadelphia, PA Age: 70 Posts: 24	The Mini has 208 Horsepower and weighs about 2980 pounds. 14.4 quarter. Good Luck and God Bless, Bill Ivins

03-27-2010, 08:18 AM	#44 (permalink)
williamt2 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Philadelphia, PA Age: 70 Posts: 24	I read somewhere there will be no all wheel drive for the subaru. True or Not ? Good Luck and God Bless, Bill Ivins

05-12-2010, 11:45 PM	#47 (permalink)
Homemade WRX Newbie Join Date: May 2010 Location: 3MI Racing LLC, VA Posts: 3	I'm going to say that it'll be a high CR DI EJ based (though probably new engine code suffix...E something haha). Much beyond that is pure speculation. I however can't wait to get one and instantly tear it down for a real build

01-23-2011, 05:23 PM	#49 (permalink)
Terrari Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 69	I cannot see the STi engine in this car. It adds about $8000 to the cost of the WRX which is already turbocharged and has upgrades to match its power. The STi weighs around 3350 lbs compared to the FT86 2650 lbs, or 25% more. The STi increases hp over the WRX by less than 10%. 305 hp is too much according to the numbers, both increases and cost. That said, it would be fun... We do not know what type of power is available from the new Subaru engines. Assuming that we get a 2.0 with both port and direct fuel injection, we could expect an increase a power increase of around 28% (based on Toyotas V6 which is about 215hp vs the Lexus V6 with 276 hp). This is unboosted power. This would put NA horsepower around 187 hp, or 14.1 lb/hp, which is in the ballpark of speculation for the new engine. The STi is 10.1 lb/hp. A 2.5 NA would be around 235 hp with the dual injection system, or 11.7 lb/hp, and a 2.0 turbo would also be around this number. At 2650lb, you need 262 hp to match the STi at 10.1 lb/hp, and this can be had by the current WRX turbo. All of these engines are feasible price wise for the FT86, all except the STi engine. I guess the most relevant question is: does Subaru want a Toyota based car to outperform the STi?

01-23-2011, 08:23 PM	#50 (permalink)
Terrari Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 69	A supercharged 2.0 with dual injection should be in the range of 230 hp, with gobs of torque down low. This would be a more sensible performance car for the street and generate much less underhood heat. Then, a slightly larger supercharger pulley would boost power to around 270hp @ maybe 10 psi with a total weight gain over the 2.0 NA of about 100 lbs. This would yield 10.2 lb/hp for an added cost of maybe $400.00. This would certainly be a machine that would offer validation to Darwin's Theory of Natural Selection, as well as leave the STi in its dust until well up the track.