[G4BROKE]

Nissan Z's are not that cheap anymore (I did look it up..and was surprised)...besides..there are some issues with sales with them...I heard...

[vingox21]

Niethier is a STI, if I'm going to be broke ima at least be happy with my car.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by G4BROKE

Nissan Z's are not that cheap anymore (I did look it up..and was surprised)...besides..there are some issues with sales with them...I heard...

I think he was referring to the older Z's.

[G4BROKE]

Originally Posted by vingox21

Niethier is a STI, if I'm going to be broke ima at least be happy with my car.

2010 STI SE is $32,999 better suspension (than same year sti) but minus 6cd/auto temp etc.

[vingox21]

And a 370 Z with the sport package is 33,400. Sorry i dont see your point.

[Cal]

Originally Posted by vingox21

And a 370 Z with the sport package is 33,400. Sorry i dont see your point.

He is standing on the ground of the STI being able to outperform the Z and cost slightly less. Let me see if I can put an end to this.

Z
0-60 mph in 5.1 seconds
0-100 12.8
1/4 mile 13.7 at 103.6 mph

Curb Weight (lbs)3426
Horsepower332 @ 7000
Torque (lb-ft)270 @ 5200
Wheelbase (in.)100.4
Length (in.)167.2
Width (in.)72.6
Height (in.)


STI

Horsepower : 305 hp @ 6000 rpm
Torque : 290 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm
Redline : 6600 rpm

Top speed : 155 mph(electronically limited)
0-60 mph : 4.8 sec.
0-¼ mile : 13.5 sec @ 100.6 mph
60-0 braking distance : 109 ft
200 ft skidpad : 0.90 g

Curb Weight : 3395 lbs
Overall length : 173.8 in.
Wheelbase : 103.3 in.
Overall Width : 70.7 in.
Height : 58.1 in.

As you can see both cars are pretty evenly matched. However it must be noted that when it comes to upgrading the cars and making them faster the Sti can be done so at less of a cost than Z. As the aftermarket will be larger and the design of the Suby engine will allow for it to make more power at a cheaper cost than the Nissan engine.

Now either car is fine. I love the 370Z it is pure sex. To each their own.

[a2cpc]

I'm kind of hoping the Subaru sticks more to its guns and designs a 3 door hatch as the next STI. Not unlike the Mule pick I have seen.

[vingox21]

On paper yes they are very close in performance, with that said the Z is much nicer on the luxury side with the same price and performance i would rather have that. But the AWD of the STI makes it a definite winner. Point being is that Subaru needs to release there STI in AWD or be blown away by the Z, in my opinion anyway.

[ej25ti]

i "LOL" at anyone who thinks Subaru is going to release a non-AWD car...

[scoobie]

Horray for AWD vs RWD debates!! I I gain this site will endure many.

Each car has their own traits, I agree the Subaru is far cheaped to make faster out of the box, if the Z was factory turbo'd it would be a dif story though.

The Nissan Z being luxury... I think not.

[AWD 216a Fan]

Originally Posted by ej25ti

i "LOL" at anyone who thinks Subaru is going to release a non-AWD car...

Exactly. There will need to be some major differences to set the FT-86 and the 216a apart and a main one must be FR-S vs. AWD STi. We also cannot judge what room's available for the Subaru version to fit AWD, since we've never seen the Subaru version. lol

The FT-86 will always be RWD, period. I'm hoping for a turbo-charged 2.5L AWD 216a; and I'll gladly wait on buying a new car, so I can get it. If they mess this up and do a RWD version, then I'll buy the Toyota version just to spite Subaru.

Seriously; what would be the point of buying the Subaru one at that point?

[AWD 216a Fan]

Originally Posted by Cwrigh25

STI

Horsepower : 305 hp @ 6000 rpm
Torque : 290 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm
Redline : 6600 rpm

Top speed : 155 mph(electronically limited)
0-60 mph : 4.8 sec.
0-¼ mile : 13.5 sec @ 100.6 mph
60-0 braking distance : 109 ft
200 ft skidpad : 0.90 g

Curb Weight : 3395 lbs
Overall length : 173.8 in.
Wheelbase : 103.3 in.
Overall Width : 70.7 in.
Height : 58.1 in.

As you can see both cars are pretty evenly matched. However it must be noted that when it comes to upgrading the cars and making them faster the Sti can be done so at less of a cost than Z. As the aftermarket will be larger and the design of the Suby engine will allow for it to make more power at a cheaper cost than the Nissan engine.

Thanks for the info!

[dsycks]

Originally Posted by AWD 216a Fan

Exactly. There will need to be some major differences to set the FT-86 and the 216a apart and a main one must be FR-S vs. AWD STi. We also cannot judge what room's available for the Subaru version to fit AWD, since we've never seen the Subaru version. lol

The FT-86 will always be RWD, period. I'm hoping for a turbo-charged 2.5L AWD 216a; and I'll gladly wait on buying a new car, so I can get it. If they mess this up and do a RWD version, then I'll buy the Toyota version just to spite Subaru.

Seriously; what would be the point of buying the Subaru one at that point?

Well, guess you will be buying a Toyota then.

I am not sure how much first hand knowledge you have of cars but if you know much about the subaru motor and tranny combo, it places a great deal of motor in front of the drive axles. If you look at this car you will see that there is very little room forward of the front wheels and as such would make an AWD version extend the front bumper and hood maybe a foot or so at least and leave a large amount of dead space behind the motor in front of the firewall. Of course you could slide the wheels back and change all the front sheet metal and make the car ugly as sin (same as it would be by adding a foot to the hood) but its worth it as long as every last car suby makes is awd right?

In short, this chassis is NOT an AWD chassis for a boxer motor as Subaru is currently doing things. Its just not possible, the math is all wrong, its like trying to put a llama in a pants suit and having it serve you lunch... maybe its possible but its so far out of the probable that it is utterly laughable.

In short... this will not be an AWD car.

Carry on.

[AWD 216a Fan]

Originally Posted by dsycks

Well, guess you will be buying a Toyota then.

I am not sure how much first hand knowledge you have of cars but if you know much about the subaru motor and tranny combo, it places a great deal of motor in front of the drive axles. If you look at this car you will see that there is very little room forward of the front wheels and as such would make an AWD version extend the front bumper and hood maybe a foot or so at least and leave a large amount of dead space behind the motor in front of the firewall. Of course you could slide the wheels back and change all the front sheet metal and make the car ugly as sin (same as it would be by adding a foot to the hood) but its worth it as long as every last car suby makes is awd right?

In short, this chassis is NOT an AWD chassis for a boxer motor as Subaru is currently doing things. Its just not possible, the math is all wrong, its like trying to put a llama in a pants suit and having it serve you lunch... maybe its possible but its so far out of the probable that it is utterly laughable.

In short... this will not be an AWD car.

Carry on.

This presumes that Subaru will be using the exact same platform as the Toyota.

If this were the case then, first of all, we'd likely have seen the 216a by now. And secondly, all indications from Subaru are that they are still working on their platform for the 216a. Don't pre-judge what the final product from Subaru will be based upon images of what will be a different platform for different car.

[ej25ti]

Originally Posted by AWD 216a Fan

This presumes that Subaru will be using the exact same platform as the Toyota.

If this were the case then, first of all, we'd likely have seen the 216a by now. And secondly, all indications from Subaru are that they are still working on their platform for the 216a. Don't pre-judge what the final product from Subaru will be based upon images of what will be a different platform for different car.

you beat me to it
agreed with everything said

[dsycks]

Based on what Subaru and Toyota are saying, they are working together to build a common chassis in order to share cost and make production expense lower. Right?

As such the cars will be in effect the same. There will be variations in the sheet metal and cosmetic differences but overall, they will have the same basic layout and as such the suby if made will not be AWD.

Please note. I have nothing against AWD. I like AWD. Loved having AWD on my Evo and may well own another high performance AWD car again.

I recall saying before that I would be willing to bet ont he outcome of the AWD debate based purely on the fact that I feel I understand how car makers make cars. You guys wanna take me up on it?

[ej25ti]

Look at cars like the Lexus IS250, it's RWD but they also offer it in AWD

[dsycks]

So you think that Subaru will use the Lexus AWD system? Maybe the BMW or Audi system?

Subaru will not spend the added tens of millions of dollars needed to develop an all new AWD system just to make ONE cars front wheels turn. It just makes no sense.

[ej25ti]

No, what I was saying was it is possible, and motor companies have been willing to offer AWD platforms for their cars, and I think of all companies, Subaru would;... their WHOLE brand is based on an AWD platform. And I specifically chose the IS250 because it has very little room forward of the front wheels like you described for this car, but they are still able to offer it in AWD without any body modifications of any type.

[dsycks]

You really don't get it do you?

As Lexus uses a very different system than Suby its really pointless to compare. As we know that suby uses the same AWD system for everything and as we know they are saying they are going to use the 6 speed from the STI we can pretty well figure that any hope of AWD is pretty well the pipe dream of a person who fails to see the writing on the wall.

I would also add that AWD will add a few hundred lbs to a car that will be close to 3000# anyway. Do we really want it to weigh more? The point of this car is to be light, simple and quick. Lets not get it twisted.

[ej25ti]

Where did they state they were using the TY856s?
Of course we don't want it to weigh more, but lots of people buy AWD for a reason. Just like Evo's aren't RWD, and that's a car aiming for light weight.

You can think what you want, but I can guarantee Subaru will not release a RWD car. They would sooner ditch the whole 216a itself before making it only RWD.

[West]

Originally Posted by ej25ti

Where did they state they were using the TY856s?
Of course we don't want it to weigh more, but lots of people buy AWD for a reason. Just like Evo's aren't RWD, and that's a car aiming for light weight.

You can think what you want, but I can guarantee Subaru will not release a RWD car. They would sooner ditch the whole 216a itself before making it only RWD.

Correct, and not to mention the only real word we have from Subaru comes from Australia where they said the car would not come as RWD.

[Nellen]

And why have they not yet released their 0216A if it's the same chassis and transmission type?

I think it's because they WILL DO an AWD car ^^

[ra23celica]

An AWD car will have to have a longer chassis to fit the drive gear for its ''FWD'' bits than the FR-S.

[Nellen]

Yeah that's what i mean